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now the efforts by the u.s. military against al qaeda are in their 12th year, we must also ask ourselves how will this conflict end? >> that's a very good question, and since that's the pentagon's top lawyer asking it, we'll ask our brain trust, is the war on terror winding down? first, though, the fiscal cliff looms ever nearer, the house speaker, among many others, sounding very pessimistic today. are we headed over the edge? and after the election in a bruising defeat, what's next for the republican party? we'll talk to one top outgoing gop senator. good sunday afternoon to you, you are watching msnbc, the place for politics. there are no signs right now of a break in the deadlocked talks to avert the so-called fiscal cliff, the devastating combinations of tax increase and spending cuts that kick in

january 1st. both sides seem to dig in this morning on the sunday talk shows. >> the only thing standing in the way of that would be a refusal by republicans that the rates would have to go up on the wealthiest americans, and i don't really see them doing it. >> right now, i would say we're nowhere, period, we're nowhere. >> that somber assessment today from house speaker john boehner, as geithner, the point man, went on all five sunday talk shows, cnbc, washington correspondent aman javers joining me live now. did geithner offer anything new today? >> he really didn't. he thinks the republicans are bluffing here and they are not prepared to go all the way to the mat here on behalf of tax cuts for the rich. they think at the white house they've got their republicans backed into a political corner

here, and they are really pressing their advantage hard. you saw this sort of breathtaking offer by the president of the united states last week when he offered basically to include $ 50 billion of new spending at a time everyone else thought we were having a debate about spending cuts here. the president feeling he has the upper hand here in the negotiation and that's what geithner is doing on his behalf up on the hill. >> the white house said they are not going to put forth another plan until republicans bring something to the table. the president was in pennsylvania at the toy factory late last week. what's the strategy going forward for the administration, what's the strategy going forward for the gop? >> well, the administration is definitely playing an outside and inside game at the same time. they send the president out to the toy factory, he's making the case in montgomery county, pennsylvania, that this plan he's got of raising taxes on the rich is the way to go. it's overwhelmingly popular. more than 60% of americans in

polls say they agree with the president's position here, but on the inside what they are doing by putting the offer out, which is basically a democratic wish list, they know that's not an offer the republicans are going to accept. they are expecting now the republicans are going to be the ones that are going to have to offer up brutal and tough entitlement spending cuts that we think is going to be a part of the deal in order for democrats and republicans to come together. they think that's extremely unpopular and want to force the republicans to be the party to do it. >> also part of the negotiations, raising the debt ceiling once again. part of the president's plan to end congressional oversight of the debt ceiling, but republicans have called that a pipe dream. is it? >> it is a pipe dream. that was part of the audacity of the president's proposal here. basically, what he said is he wants a permanent extension of the debt ceiling. remember, congress under the constitution has authority over

spending in the united states' system of government. they are very possessive of that power they have. the president basically saying, we want to have that power over here. we want the debt ceiling to be under the control of the president of the united states. that's something that's not going to fly, was extremely unpopular on capitol hill. part of why you have to read that offer of the president, as just that, an offer. there's going to be horse trading throughout the month, and the question is whether they can come up with this deal by december 31st or all of that automatic spending decrease stuff goes into effect and economists say that can be devastating for the economy in early january. >> thank you so much, sir, do appreciate you. >> thanks. closely tied over taxes is entitlement reform. a top republican said today he'll drop his plan for higher revenue unless democrats take a look at revamping medicare, medicaid, and social security.

>> i'm serious about revenue. you can limit deductions to $40,000 or $50,000 a person, which takes care of the middle class. upper-middle income americans will lose their deductions, but i'll only do that if we do entitlement reform, and the president's plan is quite frankly a joke. >> as the country inches closer to the fiscal cliff, is there a way to avoid falling over it? joining me live from los angeles, democratic congresswoman maxine waters. congresswoman, always a pleasure to see you. >> hello, how are you? >> tim geithner saying today the administration would deal with social security at a later date. are democrats serious about entitlement reform? >> no, democrats are not furious, except we understand and will insist that social security and medicare not be on the table at all. the president has presented a credible proposal on both taxes and spending, and he did offer

up $400 billion in discretionary spending cuts. so, in addition to the $1.6 trillion that we're insisting on in eliminating or allowing the tax cuts for the richest people in this country to sunset, we are offering up tax cuts also. >> you just said social security and medicare off the table. >> that's right. >> for democrats. >> that's right. that's what i think. that's what progressives think. >> most folks, not discounting -- not discounting the progressive wing of your party, most folks think medicare is going to have to be on the table for any realistic deal to get done. >> well, we think the $1.6 trillion that the president is requesting and that the support that he has from the american public, based on this election, is absolutely realistic for

raising the revenue that we need to help eliminate this debt. so, that's where we start. >> what about raising premiums on the wealthiest recipients of medicare? >> well, that should not even be discussed until we deal with the $1.6 trillion that the president has put on the table by allowing those tax cuts for the richest 2% to sunset. once we get past that, i think we can talk about a lot of things, but that is at the top of this agenda. >> we've heard from a number of top lawmakers sound very pessimistic about avoiding the fiscal cliff. what's your take? do you think that your colleagues are going to be able to hammer out a deal in the 11th hour? >> oh, i think so. i know that all of the talk that's going on now, some of which is posturing, but the -- >> most of which is posturing. >> -- but the president did put

something on the table. he can't negotiate with himself, so where is the proposal from the republican party? what is boehner going to put on the table? what does he want to do? we don't know. we are waiting for him to do some kind of counter, to talk about what their preferences are. we haven't heard anything. >> might going over the cliff give democrats more leverage to get republicans to let the tax rates go up on the wealthy, since all the tax cuts expire at the end of the year? >> well, i mean, some people talk about that, but don't forget that this whole negotiation that took place over raising the debt ceiling caused sequestration, and that would mean tremendous cuts in social programs and defense. in the president's proposal, he's talking about delaying $55 billion in cuts to defense, and about $55 billion in cuts to discretionary programs and

offering up $400 billion in cuts to discretionary programs. and i think that should be taken seriously. >> democratic congresswoman maxine waters, always enjoy you, congresswoman. thank you. >> thank you. on their way off the senate floor, two republican senators have put a new immigration reform law on the table this week. we are going to talk to one of those senators next. we will then provide the process whereby guantanamo will be closed no later than one year from now. >> remember that? you remember that. a little bit later, president obama has not kept his promise of closing down get mo just yet, but he's indicating the war on terror as we know it could come to a close soon. this is msnbc, the place for politics.

the gop is working overtime to present a different face to latinos in regards to immigration tuesday. kay bailey hutchison of texas and jon kyl of arizona introduced the achieve act. it offers three steps that could lead to permanent legal status. joining me now from dallas, texas, to talk about the achieve act and the future of immigration legislation, outgoing senator kay bailey hutchison. senator, good to see you. >> thank you, craig. good to be here. >> first of all, really quickly for folks who aren't familiar with the achieve act, what are those -- those three paths? >> it would start with the ability for a student who has come here before the age of 14 illegally with their parents, of course, and they've graduated from american high schools, they

would have six years to get some kind of degree, a vocational degree, a college degree, and then they would move on to the second step, which would be a work visa. and if they abide by the law and they have a job, they would be able to then get a third step permanent visa that is a legal status that they would be able to work here and have the -- never have the fear of being deported. >> as always, there are critics, one of them nbc latino contributor raul reyes who wrote this on friday, "the achieve act is not the logical place to begin. it offers no clear path to citizenship and saddles undocumented youth with additional conditions for legal status. at best, the achieve act is an inferior imitation of the dream act. at worst, it is a fairly restrictive and punitive measure." what do you make of that,

senator? >> i think it's quite balanced. you don't want a situation in which these young people get in line in front of the people who have been here doing the right thing, abiding by the law, not breaking any laws, and so you want to have the balance that gives them a legal status. it does give them a clear path to citizenship if they want to apply for citizenship, a green card, and then citizenship would come after those who have been in line in front of them get their opportunity, which is why we do think it's fair. there is a clear path to citizenship after they have taken the steps and shown they will get a degree. they can have a job, they can live here legally as long as they abide by the law. and i think it's a fair way to do it, keeping in mind those who have been legal and done the right thing. >> it's not likely this is going

to be taken up with serious consideration in the lame duck session. is the idea here to start the conversation about comprehensive immigration reform within your party? is this a starting point? >> actually, harry reid did say that we might have the dream act or a dream act alternative come on the floor in the lame duck, so we don't know for sure. we wanted to be proactive and be out with a positive proposal that would give them, these young people, a legal status. by the way, you also can serve four years in the military. i forgot to mention that as a way to move forward. i think that if we don't get the opportunity this year to deal with it, i certainly think it will be on the drawing boards for next year. it will be one proposal that has the support of john mccain, who's a cosponsor and will be there next year. and i think it's a good starting point. i think this is the way to start

talking about how we regularize these young people who are in a conundrum right now because they have graduated from american high schools. this is the country they know, and they should have the opportunity to work here and contribute. >> senator, why has there been such an apparent disconnect between the way that politicians in texas, politicians in the lone star state, specifically politicians in the lone star state who are republicans, the way that they handle latino issues versus the way the gop and roughly the 49 other states handle them? >> you know, we do have a great relationship. the hispanic culture is very much a part of our culture, we were part of mexico over 175 years ago. there's a lot of inner mixing of our cultures and friendships and families that go back and forth, and we welcome these immigrants. they are good people, they are working people.

they have good ethics and values, and we want to regularize them without breaking the law or causing a disruption for those who are already here legally and are trying to abide by the law. so, you know, we are a conservative state, but a state who's embraced our hispanic culture. >> really quickly, after the election, it's as though governor romney has all but vanished from the political landscape, with the exception of the lunch he had at the white house on thursday. did his loss create a leadership vacuum of sorts inside the gop? >> well, i think the next generation of leaders are stepping up now. i think you will see a lot of activity on both sides of the aisle, really, there will certainly be activity on the democratic side knowing that we will have a new candidate for -- >> give me some names. give me some names, give me some names. >> we're going to have plenty of

names. you're going to see new people come out and start testing the water. i think there's really an opportunity to define the republican party of the future, and i'm looking for candidates who might be more forward leaning to embrace the younger people in our country, to look for a way to project our values and what we want for america in a way that will attract more voters and maybe first-time voters. >> senator kay bailey hutchison of texas. senator, enjoy retirement. >> hey, thank you. rain, snow, flooding, and what's expected to be a major mess up and down the west coast. more in a live report straight ahead. plus, it's a traditional capitol hill, picking your office space. and there's apparently dancing involved now the process begins again. we'll look at it. you're watching msnbc. ♪

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thanks to the trusted performance of olay. 60 years, millions of women, real results. a picture has shifted some in rain-soaked northern california. that's a good thing. these are live pictures behind me. it's turned the rainstorm into a snowstorm, and that could keep rivers from overflowing their banks. nbc on the banks of the river right now. miguel, i think we've got a live picture of some nuts behind you who are playing on that water. is this live right now? >> reporter: yeah, craig, you just missed it. they just passed about 30 seconds ago, three guys on inner tubes and wet suits rolling down the river here. this river rarely crests this high. we're actually just above flood stage. although that sounds like the area will be flooding, technically, these homes are built above flood stage, so

we're not seeing widespread damage. you mentioned just a short time ago it was snowing here, but it's turned back from snow to light rain. this may be the end of the weather maker today, although the rain and snow comes off and on for most of the day. we started this afternoon with about ten hours of pretty steady rain, then all of a sudden we started seeing the light snow. our friends at the weather channel tells us that's good news, because all of that snow means there will be less runoff working its way into the river here. this river is expected to crest later on this evening in some parts, reaching nearly 18 feet depending where you're at in the river. as we mentioned, that is just above flood stage, but these homes are built above flood stage, so the vast majority of properties here along this river are going to be safe. it's been a wicked day of weather, not just here, but up and down the state. in san francisco bay area, rapid transit lost power, trains were shut down for some time. in sacramento, we had downed

trees, which knocked out power to part of that region, but still the sacramento marathon continued, so many folks here are still trying to go about their day. there are some businesses that have been shut down because of localized flooding and roads that remained closed today, but for the most part, the biggest concern is this river and this community seems to have dodged a bullet, craig. >> if there is a weather event on the west coast, miguel is there. always good to see you, thank you. >> you too, buddy. time for a healthy serving of trail mix. congress before the big fiscal cliff fight. it's time for the house freshmen to choose their offices. on friday, the reps picked their office number from the congressional office lottery, where they were apparently encouraged to do some sort of superstitious dance to help pick the best number, and they did not disappoint. that's a cartwheel, that's a congressman's aide, another aide apparently played journey's

"don't stop believing" on their phone before giving it a go. yeah, they are taking it seriously. in just a couple hours from now, the kennedy center honors gala begins. including led zeppelin, david letterman and dustin hoffman. right now, the president out enjoying some afternoon golf with those guys. former president bill clinton, former dnc chair terry mccauliff and ron kerr. it's the president's third outing since winning reelection. only the second time ever, though, he has played golf with former president clinton. president obama has a full day today. coming up, as another u.s. base comes under attack in afghanistan, we will look at what the war on terror will look like after american troops come home. plus, there's the question of what to do with the several hundred detainees still locked

up at guantanamo. we'll cover it all. the brain trust is here. they won't disappoint. they won't disappoint a whole lot. you're watching msnbc, the place for politics. oh, sir. that is a customer. oh...sorry about that. [ male announcer ] break from the holiday stress. fedex office. a new way to save on your prescriptions. it's the aarp medicarerx saver plus plan from unitedhealthcare. with this plan, you can get copays as low as a dollar through a preferred network pharmacy like walgreens -- where you'll find 8,000 convenient locations. best of all, this plan has the lowest part d premium in the united states -- only $15 a month. open enrollment ends december 7th. so call today or visit your local walgreens. you can stay in and like something... or you can get out there and actually like something.

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get started at legalzoom.com today. and now you're protected. good sunday, i'm craig melvin. here's a quick look at top stories making news right now. the bus that crashed into an overpass yesterday at miami international airport was chartered by a jehovah witness group. two people died, two others -- missed warning signs about the height of the overpass. for the first time, hosted a same-sex marriage, one of the women graduated at west point works at the military academy. a moment of silence was held at a game against the kansas city chiefs and carolina panthers. yesterday, chiefs' linebacker

jovan belcher killed himself at the stadium after killing his girlfriend. left at least five afghan nationals dead, nine suicide bombers struck the base, one blew himself up outside the main gate. the remaining bombers were killed. officials tell nbc news at least 18 people were wounded. nbc has the latest from kabul. >> reporter: craig, it seemed to have been a well-coordinated and complex attack. taliban insurgents tried to target jalalabad airfield when a car ladened with explosives targeted a gate there, allowing insurgents to try to trickle in. that's where they were met with afghan security forces who are engaged the taliban, in the end killing nine insurgents.

five afghans were also killed, including two civilians and three members of the afghan special forces. according to nato here in afghanistan, they say the taliban were not able to breach the perimeter of the base and no u.s. service members were killed in today's attack. in fact, they see the attack as a success for the afghan security forces, because they were in the lead and helped defeat the taliban. as a success for the afghan surt forces because they were in the lead and helped defeat the taliban. 2013 is going to be all about that, because nato wants to hand over all of afghanistan security into afghan-led hands, giving nato at least a year to sit in the background and wait for the afghans to ask for help and monitor their progress, because at the end of 2014, that's the end of the nato combat mission here and when most of the allied troops, including the u.s. troops, will be heading home.

craig? >> for us in kabul on this sunday. thanks much to you. the continuous debate over guantanamo and detainees resurfaced this week. ari melber has details on that as we go behind the story. good sunday to you, sir. >> thanks, craig. >> let's talk about this. all this happening as the hearings for mohammed and the other 9/11 co-conspirators begin at gitmo. >> there's a debate over how to finally close this prison. first, a new report from the government accountability office concluded all the detainees could be securely transported to the u.s. the report was commissioned by senator dianne feinstein and shows gitmo can safely close. the other came from a top lawyer at the pentagon who touched on one of the toughest questions in

the war against al qaeda, will this ever end? >> there will come a tipping point, a tipping point at which so many of the leaders and operatives of al qaeda and its affiliates have been killed or captured, and the group is no longer able to attempt or launch a strategic attack against the united states. >> well, to be ready for when that time comes, the u.s. needs a fair attention system that can either convict detainees or set them free. guantanamo is over a decade old, but we're nowhere near ready for that. over 600 detainees have been released, according to human rights watch, another 166 still remain in cuba today, and two years ago, of course, congress passed a law for those detainees from being transferred to the u.s. congress has put up as many roadblocks as possible to keep the guantanamo bay prison open. but most other countries won't

take these detainees, so congress has frozen our detention policy in the past. president obama, frankly, has not pushed back enough, even though closing guantanamo was a key pledge, of course, from his first presidential campaign. this problem won't go away by itself, and i think the prospect of passing the buck to a third presidential administration is unconscionable. craig? >> what's happened with the president? you mention it there, it was a promise that he made. is it just a lack of political will or have there been other obstacles? >> i think there were two phases on this, number one, really into it when the white house council's office took over the stacks of files on every deta detainee and transferred some, but wave two was getting blocked by congress. the reaction to that, quite frankly, no matter what you think congress did, the reaction was, okay, we'll move on to other things. >> i want to bring in other members of the sunday brain trust, perry bacon, also

political editor, and senior editor of the review and colu columnist to bloomberg review. perry, let me start with you, with president obama winning a second term, is there a window now, window of opportunity, to close gitmo and squash some of the dissatisfaction from the left? >> there is a window. let me disagree with ari slightly here. there was a vote in the senate on president obama's plan to close gitmo in 2009, and it failed 90 to 6. 90 to 6 very resoundingly. the republicans all opposed it, but 48 of the 54 democrats opposed it too. so the white house giving up at that point was not surprising to me. it's not clear it's the political will on capitol hill to close gitmo, the problem being once you close gitmo, the detainees have to go to prisons in the united states. every senator is basically like, not my district, not my state. i'm not sure until there's a real issue from the senate and

the house that you can really move this. the president tried pretty hard, i thought, and is really, like, a loss 90-6 is hard to cover from. >> i agree with perry. it's definitely true you had the democrats in there making the same point, basically they didn't want to see detainees come to the u.s. in that respect, the president was very much boxed in. the problem, though, goes beyond the debate as it stood. i think what the president has to do is outline a post-9/11 detention policy that deals with what mr. johnson said in the clip we played. >> is there political will on the hill even for that? >> if you get the policy, what democrats at the time said if we go through and understand what the trials and plans, we'll be more likely to support it. there were also, i think, genuine questions about whether they'd done the hard work for planning ahead. >> i want to bring you in here and switch gears a bit.

"washington post" reporting, a fascinating story, the pentagon plans on sending hundreds of additional spies overseas now. it's part of that ambitious plan to assemble an espionage effort. what do you make of that? >> well, you know, i suspect that partly it reflects the traditional criticism of the cia being a bit too desk bound, and that was not something that the defense department was really making up for, because it was really its intelligence was focused on technical analysis. i suspect what they are looking for is more on the ground understanding of what's going on in other countries. >> how might this program affect what the pentagon top attorney sees as the eventual end of the war on terror? >> what do you do with the intelligence you get? we talked about drones and the strikes. you want to wind down the hot

conflict with al qaeda, but you still want to gather the intelligence. this blurring, we typically in this country, since the national security act of 1947, which reorganized our security, we've typically tried to keep a real bright line between intelligence and operations. you remember that on wmds and the issues in the cia. i think this blurring is a problem that needs more oversight. >> perry, we've talked about this and you and i have had this conversation on the broadcast, one of president obama's legacies is probably going to be drone strikes. probably going to be a significant part of his legacy, much to the chagrin of folks part of the progressive wing of the party. what do you make of that? >> i think he would say his legacy is going to be the fact he wound down al qaeda. he killed osama bin laden. there's two ways to look at that. they've done a great job in terms of killing terrorists, but the drone program itself, looking forward, there's a big question about how much

executive authority president obama used. obama talked about not using authority the way president bush did, but it's one of the examples how he's using executive authority in the way a lot of democrats are weary about the way obama has. >> apparently including obama. >> there would be a constant protest outside 1600 pennsylvania avenue if some of the activity that has been taken place overseas with regards to drones had been taking place five years ago. but we'll talk more about that, i'm sure, over the next few months. brain trust, don't go anywhere. when we come back, we'll continue our conversation on the fiscal cliff. worst-case scenarios for how we could go off the cliff. you're watching msnbc. this is even, on a sunday afternoon, the place for politics. ere plaque psoriasis. i decided enough is enough. ♪ [ spa lady ] i started enbrel. it's clinically proven to provide clearer skin. [ rv guy ] enbrel may not work for everyone --

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spend new year's eve with budget numbers. members from both sides of the aisle are painting a bleak picture that a budget deal will not be reached before the end of this year. >> i think we're going over the cliff. it's pretty clear to me they've made a political calculation. >> because, of course, on january 1st, all the taxes go back. >> congressman, did you just say we'd go off the cliff? did you just said we'd go off the cliff, is that what i'm hear something. >> i think there's better than a 50/50 chance that we'll be into the first week of january. >> that was democratic congressman peter welch on this show yesterday, by the way. i want to bring back our brain trust. ari melber, perry bacon, msnbc contributor and political editor for the grio. and the columnist with bloomberg view. that's the last time i'm introducing all of you with your full titles.

remish, you have written about the pessimistic view on the fiscal cliff negotiations. why don't you think a deal gets done? >> well, i just think the parties are too far apart. if president obama wants republicans to agree not only to allow the top tax rates to go up, but also put a new millionaire surtax, new stimulus funding, there's no way republicans do that without many entitlement reform. i think the democrats are prepared to allow, and that's why i just think that i agree with the congressman. i think that we are likely not to get a deal before the beginning of the year. >> but do you think it was a senator lindsey graham indicated there at the beginning, do you think it was a political calculation or is a political calculation on the part of the white house? >> well, i think there are political calculations being made by everybody in washington right now, but i don't think it's a secret that the democrats believe, in a lot of cases, that they have the upper hand in the p.r. war over this issue.

>> perry, this is grover norquist just a few hours ago on "meet the press." take a listen. >> every republican who had impure thoughts about maybe i could raise taxes a little because the other guys will be reasonable have to go back to the drawing board. they've just been told there are no real reforms in this budget. $1.6 trillion in tax increases and in some of the those savings are actually tax increases. >> perry, is speaker boehner's biggest problem going to be pleasing those in his own party who don't want to raise taxes, or getting the other side to cut more entitlements? >> the tax problem is the biggest problem. president obama has laid out in the past and seen willing to me, at least, to make some cuts to medicare. maybe not ones conservatives like. what we don't know yet, the big question is, president obama is pushing for $1 trillion in tax increases, pushing it for a long time. he feels he has a mandate on that now. we know his idea is about

raising revenue. we don't know what the republicans ideas are on the revenue. that's what we need to know. that's the whole question, what are they. go ahead. >> we've heard from lindsey graham yesterday or the day before with regards to revenue. he still contends, ari, that you can raise a significant chunk of revenue, he's thrown out $800 billion at least by closing loopholes and limiting deductions, whether it's $30,000, $40,000, $50,000. >> yeah, but he's just talking, right? just talking. what the president has done is outlined a plan. he outlined it once and the american people voted for it, and he outlined it again, not surprisingly, the same core arguments, same basic idea the people who make over a quarter million will have that money taxed and we have to do stuff around jobs and infrastructure. they shouldn't be surprised. they need to pony up their own plan on paper. that's the reason why we're likely to go over an overhyped cliff. the deal is going to eventually

get done and look more like what obama ran and run on than their pipe dream. >> why don't you think we've seen a concrete offer from the gop yet with regards to entitlement reform specifically? >> you know, it's interesting. you know, you didn't see that kind of demand for campaign-style running on platforms when you had previous successful bipartisan deals as in 1990, as in 1997. you had people who were willing to make a good fake deal with each other, and you had, i guess, a certain level of trust that you just don't have in this case. i think republicans feel that if they put up a counter offer, their own deal that doesn't mean there's going to be any progress towards a deal. it's just going to be more fodder for campaign-style events. >> but you'd have to be crazy to trust republicans to be negotiators of good faith on these issues when they already said that they cared more about political negotiations and their political interest than the

actual economy. that's why their own base said don't take the debt ceiling and hold it hostage. that's what they did the last time they had an adult responsibility moment. they acted like children, and they are going to be sent to the principal's office in this debate and they are going to look. >> hang on real quickly. got to take a quick break. when we come back, we'll finish that conversation really quickly and get your predictions about the headlines, the headlines this saturday before christmas. you're watching msnbc. ck stomacm splashing up- relieving the pain quickly. try fast, long lasting gaviscon®. relieving the pain quickly. is bigger than we think ... sometimelike the flu.fer from with aches, fever and chills- the flu's a really big deal. so why treat it like it's a little cold? there's something that works differently than over-the-counter remedies. prescription tamiflu attacks the flu virus at its source. so don't wait. call your doctor right away. tamiflu is prescription medicine for treating the flu in adults and children one year and older

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let's go ahead and bring back the brain trust. guys, we'll get your predictions on what your publications headline will be on the beginning of the holiday weekend, whether a fiscal cliff deal will be reached by then, but perry, as promised, i cut you off before the break. what were you about to say, good sir? >> i'm an optimist about this. what we saw last year, we thought the government might shut down, it didn't.

we thought we might go over the debt ceiling, we didn't. this is the stage we're always in where president obama gave an offer he knew was a negotiating plan, you negotiate from the left. mcconnell gave an offer on friday that was very much on the right. it plays out in the next month, i think people get closer to a deal. lindsey graham, i don't think was saying we'll go over the cliff for sure. he's also posturing himself. that wasn't a comment, that was a posturing move. >> we know one of the most dangerous places is between senator graham and a television camera. give me your headline really quickly, perry. >> my headline is "obama delays vacation but negotiations are continuing and progressing and moving towards a deal." a deal will happen at some point, but obama always has his vacation delayed. i was covering the president a couple years ago and my hawaii trip got delayed a couple days. life went on. >> you were not happy. >> i was, you know, i was not happy, it's true, craig. >> what's your headline, sir?

"markets down, party trade blame as fiscal cliff talks fail." >> you're so gloom and doom. >> republicans don't see themselves as unruly kids and don't see obama as a wise principal, contrary to what ari was saying earlier. >> what do you think it's going to take at this juncture to get a deal done? >> i think you have to have the president show some leadership and show an actual balanced package that includes some entitlement reforms and have the muscle with his own caucus to bring that about. >> do you think it would be a advantageous to do it himself or leave it to the staffers? >> i think republicans in congress work better with vice president biden than president obama in these sorts of negotiations. >> america's happy warrior could be ruled out. what's your headline, good sir? >> unfortunately like past headlines, "in a jobs crisis, the republicans are still trying

to cut health care and economic aid." i think that will be more and more difficult for them to carry as a message when people back home don't talk about cliffs, they talk about jobs, they talk about unemployment, and they don't want manufactured crises from washington when you could cut these tax hikes on the middle class, first order of business. >> it is fascinating. you eluded to it earlier, number of guests have talked about this as well, how we are very much in the posturing phase period as you indicated. a lot of bluster, a lot of chest thumping. one has to wonder at what point, at what point, perry, all of that ends and the real negotiating gets started. >> it's going to get close -- january 1st is getting closer. we're further from the posturing stage and further to the negotiating phase. i assume boehner will have a plan of his own he knows won't be passed either, but you can see a different strategy from

president obama has been important here. usually he negotiates from the center, but now he's negotiating from the left. he's pushing for more stimulus money. good reasons for that, but surprising politically he's going for something he knows the republicans won't like. he's saying, i won, here's my plan. >> you went so long you got the last word. thank you much. >> thanks, craig. >> that's our show. be sure to come back next saturday, 2:00 eastern. sunday i'll be here again 3:00 eastern as well. of course, keep it here for the latest news updates throughout the night. ♪ [ male announcer ] everyone deserves the gift of all day pain relief. this season, discover aleve. all day pain relief with just two pills. a regular guy with an irregular heartbeat. the usual, bob?

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